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Jan 20, 2005

Comments

Patrick Logan

This may appeal to some people, and maybe is a preferable alternative for a woman unable to have children.

I am male and a father of two. As for me, I cannot imagine anything else being the equivalent of living with a pregnant spouse for ~9 months. "Most parents just... feel the baby move..." Don't underestimate the experience! (And I can't comprehend what it must have been like for my wife.)

I wonder if experiments toward this end would be fair to the children born along the way. They would themselves be the subjects of experiments the rest of their lives. That seems wrong to me unless there is a clear need.

Surrogate motherhood is different to a significant degree... this is not much different than adoption, which we know works well for the most part.

Sperm and egg donations are completely different, with fertilization occurring once at a cellular scale. The pregnancy and baby then develops just the same.

SBG

The idea of the 'artificial wombs' has been an issue ever since I had sense of reasoning. I believe the real issue is not one that medical science has not advanced to the point of making it happen, but rather all the bioethical, and ethical issues that arise from such a practice.

Growing fetuses outside a mother's womb seems a bit Science fiction. But the reality is that all over Japan, the US and Europe, advances are making this a possible realty. In Japan, for example, scientists have created a completely artificial womb which sustained goat fetuses for several weeks.

Graham, your blog brings up an issue that can really change what is known as the 'miracle of life' and thus the very essence of humanity. What are some of the ethical implications of these artificial wombs? And are they a good idea or not?

From a pure 'practicality' (excluding emotional, attachment issues) perspective one could argue the fetus would benefit.
Deaths of premature fetuses could be drastically reduced because the fetus could be transferred directly to an artificial womb where it could continue to grow and develop in relative safety. In some cases an artificial womb might be even more safe than a natural womb. The baby would not be exposed to all the negative forces the mother is exposed to. NO risks of diseases, accidents,cigarettes, drugs, alcohol, pollutants, inadequate nutrition, etc., This however could be used by insurance companies to force women who want children, to use an artificial womb. Employers could force women to use an artificial womb if they feel that by taking maternal leave it would cost the company too much. Having kids would no longer be seen as a big deal, but something to be delegated to the 'artificial womb.' Just pop the kid into the 'artificial womb' and wait for it to be ready. This seems a bit odd, and presents a twisted similarity to popping some goodies in the oven and waiting for them to be ready. The question parents would get asked would no longer be, "when is the baby due," but rather "when is your baby done."

There is also the question of the baby's natural development. An enormous amount of research indicates that during the nine months of gestation the fetus begins to attach to the mother. I wonder would a fetus growing in an artificial womb ever fully bond with its mother? Would it suffer from social or psychological disadvantages from being grown in a bubble rather than in its mother's womb? How many babies would have to be 'artificially made' before we could even find out? (This reminds me a bit of the movie AI-Artificial Intelligence http://www.ai-movie.com/.

Now from a woman's perspective, there is the question of convenience. A utopian notion of having a child without enduring nine months of weight gain, sickness, health risks, wardrobe changes, stretch marks, and of course, labor itself, sounds awfully tempting. But once again, I wonder, if all these components are removed are we eliminating childbirth altogether. From my perspective kids that are born in environments where both mother and father are engaged in the whole childbearing, process seem more adapt to societal pressures.

Overall I think a lot more needs to be done in the study of reproduction and fetal development before this technology becomes a reality. Even so it will be limited to those with the financial means to buy it. However, once it becomes accessible to the mainstream as a society we will need to be prepared to deal with the many ethical consequences such a technology will carry. In theory, a true test tube baby will be created. Any person with an egg and some sperm will be able to create and grow a fetus without any input or interest from a mother or a father. The question then is, "Do we want to consider the options and consequences now, or should we simply wait until it is a reality before we wake up and try to deal with it?"

Graham Glass

Hi SBG,

I agree with you that the main questions are ethical and sociological, not scientific.

I'm also a relativist, and don't believe in the concept of absolute good or bad. So I tend to ask the question "who is this good for" rather than "is this good"?

- It's good for mothers that don't want the physical side effects of child-bearing.

- It's good for the fetus from a health-perspective, especially if the mother smokes, does drugs, or doesn't take care of herself in other ways.

- It's good if you're a single person that wants children and is uncomfortable with using a surrogate mother.

- It's good if you want to start a space colony and need to populate the colony quickly on arrival.

- It's good if you're a rich person that wants to have a lot of children that are custom-engineered.

Properly orchestrated, I can imagine an artifical womb being a more enjoyable place for a fetus, especially if high-fidelity music, soothing rhythms, and other such stimulus were present. But of course there's no way to know this without trying it; and how do you find how happy the baby was anyway?

I think that having kids would still be a major decision in anyone's life, but not subject to exactly the same set of parameters. I don't think this necessarily is better or worse for an individual, just different.

History shows that when a technology or idealogy comes along that gives a group of people an advantage, it gets used. So in many ways, the key to figuring out whether artificial wombs become a reality is to answer the question "who are they good for?" and "who would pay for them"?

Interesting times, indeed!

danny

this would be a great opportunity for some women who not buy choice cannot have any or no more children My uterus was taken away from me at the age of 25 when my placenta would not deliver I had "placenta accreta" and in order to save my life because I was haemorraging very badly they had to give me a hyster. !!!!! I wanted to have lots more children my options to have more are very few and this would be great for women in my situation as I still have my ovaries!!!! I can only live and hope that one day I can have another child biologically keep up the good work

vladimir stoyanov

The Trip
(recommend the introduction!!!)
Introduction.

You get started that trip to infinity. You will go over couple levels on evolution. To understand, assimilated, adopted and …, the meanings of unions, is recommend, to read through text. The levels of understanding, assimilation, adoption and …, depends on your own self-analysis. If you do this with imagination and … for every example to which you succeed to touch, catch, feel, take, use,… You can use as a criterion for any level of truth to the open parallel between wisdom, love and …, whose shine we feel and …, from inside, outside(unknown), and…

Time to get started.

I don’t find any reason why He is doesn’t create infinites on numbers of creatures (for example we can look at humans, like there are microcosms), universes, types of love and wisdom, and…, so theology, sciences, and …are alive (in time /past, present, future/, out of him and,…). I believe that this includes and the time => is normal that every-thing is with his time, but the time can be examined and as gifts (which we can develop, but which borders depends from as – which show that by those, we can go above those /time, space,…/), or…It’s strange that there are people which believe that they will be like Him, who is unintelligible, and at the same time you can understand everything in Him, but at the same time they can’t find Him everywhere (like all types of people, animals, plants, creatures, relationships even evil ones / the defeated evil can make us better, which doesn’t mean that this is the best way, but Who can say which way is the best one, or this is bad for everybody, everyway, every-time, …/, …), but just in couple of (usually) their places – at least, because when they are at this level (the highest one – for them), they are the chosen ones from Him, which have to rule the world into Gods will, which they now - for sure (and I wonder, how can anybody know the unknown, …?), like that which they decide is bad like absolutely free will, which is no chaos, because everybody can commit suicide (because he can kill himself, but not his double sides at parallel words, or energy, which God will direct to …) or wish to live agаin for another chance. For example – someone, which is make only one true decision and it is to try again differently, because he wants to continue, but …- with or without memories which can make unification after he transform his weaknesses in powers for start the new way, or particular in different parts in different ages, or to do or complete something, or just want to fly around his boo until they continue together, or … but can any human say that something is bad to be 100% sure, for anything?- for example what will be true love without true freewill, and what is that true life without true love, blessings, for them is bad for everybody and this is out of any relationships with Him, or … Some people decide that their reflections up to ecology (animals, plants, …), or … have too big of consequences up to productivities, … in all the planets, us, them (animals, plants, …), …, but how then can anybody say that wont, …, and have not been wanting to explore things like planets, us, them (animals, plants, …), …, and their relationships, characteristics, …, because when you’re all looking like one and one like all, you just live differently. Some people have been looking only for the benefits, but how can they have been seeing that kind benefits, when they didn’t see things like planets, us, them (animals, plants, …), …, and their relationships, characteristics, …
Some people look at life as a game and just decide to continue, withоut asking where, why, how, how long, do I want to, is that true, is that life, love, feelings, are there ends or beginnings, others, infinitives, …, wouldn’t it be easy if we all made at least some plans and would just be flexible? Because our plans are not the best choice every time, but when we look, search, explore, hunt, set fire to, to flay, …and when we feel that we’re going the way of life fire…which makes fire, …, and then continue that hard but true way with no ends or beginnings, …, impossible give an idea of, or to imagine, or ….
And past by sort of, like physics (entropia, nano-technologies, teleports, A.I. / => the meaning of work will be very different, chemistries, medicinies, gene-engineering, cloning, artificial-matrixes, hypnosis, telepathy, telekinetes, dreams, economics, politics, evtanazia, old ages like full of beautiful matters, periods of life, which are exactly to his please to the ways to eternity), faith, ethics, morality, wealth, poverty, charity, solidarity, tolerance, forgiveness, love, moderation in everything autonomies, critics, relationships with everything ( animals, people (especially children which have cleanliness), which we can’t even imagine, but we easily neglect physical consequences like addictions, rapes, perversions, slaves to prostitution, organs, spеcies, countries, faiths, atheisms.
Comparing the levels of evolution of human species we obviоusly see the difference between those, who knew that life continuеs even after death (that is part of the normal development in the life of everybody and everything) and there are different ways without bodies, masses (oxygen, water, etc.), temperаtures, speeds (far quicker than the sun shine, … speeds, which can go to infinities seemingly faster but possibly slower also, which do or do not show us where we are somewhere between infinity of infinities, or simultaneously every-were, or … ), energies kinetic, …, which can go to infinities, or exchange simultaneously information (which we can be separated into different points, which are on infinitive distances everyone and simultaneously are all in one ) or growths, evolutions, and ways between words like lives (brains, hearts, souls – identities, independently, dead. For example, mass can be measured down to infinite little points, which we can be at least like, an eagle in the mountain, because God has no coincidences, but He has been and is still creating species that evolve so much that they can even evolve without their Creator, but they really don’t want this so much that this even as a thought causes sharp and strong pain, which cannot be described, but we just know that this is impossible, even because we feel Him in us – He helps, teaches, picks up, even when we are down and everything and everyone is above us, loves us and when we are alone wipes our tears, even when no one sees. This way to the future of infinitives doesn’t reject all that we knew about the world because they are just parts of it.
According to hypothesis for parallel worlds (which is possible because of the infinity of space) is normal somewhere to have infinity numbers of parallel worlds, which is one of the explanations for time-travel. Everything is logical, including in her, which in that reality and time is exactly next to people, which are not ready to meet even themselves psychologically or at least try to look at them like they are different and the same at the same time. For example, just like humans from the other planets, which are a copy of them, but he is passing by, but meanwhile observes briefly hidden, because he knows that maybe he is not ready yet, or time has not come yet or that the feelings are close enough (at least psychologically) but when we look at cut-copy–paste examples (like if we put ourselves in a game and put this in the PC, for our reality), which we can: review, stop or transform problems into resolutions, copy (but it’s clear that every copy is responsible for himself – they all have free will, they are copies, but they all have different ways, times, …), cut and paste (but even if we do these, like to cut and paste him in the past of his game where we can erase his copy or not, or even if we do this, this will be just his copy-other person, which means that everybody is unique, but every moment, space, and so how different is that point of view for time, …, so we can say: jump back or forward, or … to time; or what time is, or to make borders to anything else, or somewhere else. We can make upgrades, or files in him like start programs, which make archives like memories, updates, warnings, go out, when the time came on, or other ), erase part or all that can’t be erased that which somewhere once was, turn where we want to, but in all these cases the time there (in the game) is not the only-one we’ve seen that even those ones are infinities, but we know that have more …, and more …, and …
It is similar and the parallel between dream, hypnosis, trip, time, parallel words, …. For example: how different is the sold travel when you sleep (and there you can see all those connections, free hidden, links, or you can use other speeds, times, spaces, …; when you travel in to hypnosis is different too but is and close enough like dreams, or other examples .
And now we continue those links, but we just add and telepathy (this could be in to many ways- for example when we tune in wave, which were looking for, at time or thoughts of something, or something, or pleases, relationships, or which we looking for or not), telekinesis (close enough like telepathy, but in the same is different) … - and every this one with theology like they are parts of one thing – God, which doesn’t end with those paradoxes, or with whatever He is more and mare and ….
Because maybe that’s true in that reality, time, … on top of the waves (which can be on the top of the mountains) can bring us the ticket to continue that … infinitive happiness, like the quiet puff of wind with unknown fragrance, like low place where flow, a live water of immortality, ….


And here were we travel between theories, hypotheses, … we seeing that after 100 mln. years the sun will be transform in to red giant, so if we survive after 6 billion year the sun will be came, a white draft, but after it going to be the critical point of smallness it will draw all those planets and will explode, so if anybody survive, they will be not so far from collision with other system and after with black how, but for this I think we can do, a lot (for what we didn’t created, but think, appraised, feels, loves like: colonize other planets, but colonize in good point – keep, develop evolution there and ours, …;…. For example for colonize we can use projects for space ships according type moving, supply with energy, flexibility possible to add/replace each other systems at them selves like: freezing peoples and simultaneously spermatozoa and ova (and the softwаre, which includes successions, species, DNA, …); or lake programs artificial matrix, artificial parent (which are use-full even today, because will save time, panes, uncomfortable situations like go out of job, after this, psychological points, dangerous while she carry it, or birth, …), artificial intellect which can make him self, a live, or part from human in to body of robot , or body with other DNA, according the new planet like for water-full, hotness, coldness, darkness, or for radiation, or and if we there seeing only silence, but know that and that from God is not indifference, but just sometime maybe is better to learn and to understand and to applying silence, ….

Postscript
For questions, critics, ads, lessons, …you can just continue the trip, because the door into the infinities is open and you may in, so I can’t say that the trip will be hard, because I enjoy challenges, but I know that I want to continue ….


LEGEND:
=> (THEREFORE)
italic (at least couple of meanings)

I can send you notes, ... for subjects, ... like: humans, like there are microcosms; find Him everywhere; absolutely free will, which is no chaos, …; reflections up to ecology; way of live fire, …which makes fire; gene-engineering, cloning, artificial-matrixes, hypnosis, telepathy, telekinetis, dreams, economics, politics (terrorism-peaceful solutions for everything), evtanazia; moderation in every-think; relationships with everything; levels of evolution; ways without bodies, masses (oxygen, water, …), temperаture, speeds, energies, ways between words , ...; He has being create species, which evolve; wipe our tears even when nobody see that; hypothesis for parallel between dream, hypnosis, trip, parallel worlds, time travel, telepathy, telеkinetis, ...; everybody is unique, but and every moment, space, and …, so how different is that point of view for time, …; that true in that reality, time, …; colonize in good point; aborts, slaves, artificial matrix, artificial parent, artificial intellect; human into the body of a robot; body with other DNA, according the new planet; the door in to infinities is open and you may enter …

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Destiny

  • Destiny is my science fiction movie about the future of humanity. It's an epic, similar in breadth and scope to 2001: A Space Odyssey.

    To see the 18 minute video, click on the graphic below.

    Destiny17small

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